Welcome back to the show. So, today's episode is super special. I have two leaders here for a panel conversation about a topic that we've been seeing discussed quite a lot, and it's about the topic around how to feel confident, knowing when is it time to go.
When is it time to leave a position or maybe an entire organization?
And the conversation was so good that it kept going - so enjoy this Part 1 of the conversation, and stay tuned for Part 2!
I think what's so important in that question is what is your five year plan, your 10 year plan for yourself personally? And then when you look at that and compare it to the role you're in today, is that serving you on that path to achieve that five or 10 year goal.
And I think what we also need and what Peloton Moms in Leadership does for us as a group, to be quite honest, is we need sounding boards. And those sounding boards need to be a diverse mix of people.
well, Hey there, I'm Liz St. Jean, and this is the RISE in Your Nine to Five podcast, where I help sensitive high performers who want to have meaningful and fulfilling careers, making an impact in the world. It's where strategy meets intuition to become a better leader with more joy, less stress and endless impact.
So let's break free from perfectionism, imposter thoughts, and that inner rule keeper that keeps you in a career comfort zone. It's time to become unapologetically you. And step into the life you were meant to live. We're going to talk presence, productivity, and having it all. Or as my four-year-old would say, we're going to take over the world.
So let's get to it.
Welcome back to the show. So, today's episode is super special. I have two leaders here for a panel conversation about a topic that we've been seeing discussed in a, in a private group we're in, in a private Facebook group. We're in, and it's about the topic around. how to feel confident, knowing when is it time to go right?
When is it time to leave a position or maybe an organization. And just before we hop, hop on to the topic, I wanna give a really special shout out to that group, to the Facebook group where I met these leaders. So it's a group called the Pean Moms in Leadership. It's a Facebook group and it's run by another leader named Melissa, and it's such a thoughtful group, so I wanted to give her a very special.
Shout out. She's done a really outstanding job in this group, creating a really safe space for people to meet and connect and have these leadership conversations. So Melissa, if you're listening, thank you so much. Okay. So moving on to the panel conversation. Let's start with some brief introductions. So Leslie, if you could introduce yourself first, and then Heather, we'll hear from.
Yep. Thank you for, uh, having me. My name is Leslie Rice and I've been in the risk management and insurance industry for about 17 years, uh, over three different companies and have had the for chance to, uh, have just gone through this over the past couple of years about knowing when to go. So timely, timely conversation.
Thanks, Liz, uh, Heather King here. I've been in the tech industry for over 20 years, and I think this is a great conversation right now. We see it not only in the group that we're part of, but in just conversation generally as we're talking to colleagues or friends, really evaluating where and what they wanna do.
So I appreciate you hosting this today, Liz. Thank you.
Well, and thank you both of you so much for taking the time. I really appreciate hearing from you and I know that our listeners are gonna really love to hear what you have to say as well. So thank you very much. So let's jump right into the topic. And it really is about confidence in knowing when to go.
We see that coming up. It bubbles up for people quite a lot or how do I feel confident? Sometimes they might say, how do I know? When is it time to go? And quite often there's that undercurrent of confidence. So I'm curious to hear from the two of you, what are your, you know, initial thoughts, especially around like why confidence is so wrapped up in making this decision?
Oh, maybe I'll hear from Heather first and then Leslie.
Absolutely. You know, I love that question, but I feel like there's really two parts in there that I love to dis dissect and talk about. The first is when you talk about when is it time to go. Um, I think what's so important in that question is, having where you're going in the long run, what is your five year plan, your 10 year plan for yourself personally?
And then when you look at that and compare it to the role you're in today, whether it's the company or the position, is that serving you on that path you need to be on to achieve that five or 10 year goal. You know, it's just like putting in an address in the G P s. Sometimes you, you don't always know where you're going.
but if you have the g p s on, you know, your destination, it helps in that. That gives you the confidence to know when you think through that decision in that really angsty moment. Cuz let's be honest, sometimes when we're, we're evaluating that something's going on, right? You have a feeling or you've had something occur that you're just, it's not sitting right with you.
So you find yourself contemplating that, right? Plug in the gps, know your destination in five or 10 years and then. , did I get out of this what I needed to or is it time for me to move on so I can achieve what I need to to make sure I arrive where I wanna be? So for me, that's how I look at when is it time, uh, to really move on and find something that speaks to you more?
And confidence is part of that. You know, we talk a lot about, you hear people talking about whether it is related to the individual or not. I almost look at it as we have a set of keys to get into a house. When you go to open the door, you put the first key in. It doesn't work. You don't stand there and wait for somebody else to open the door for you.
But for some reason in our careers, we wait sometimes for others to tell us You're ready. You're ready for that next step. Whereas if it was a door you're trying to unlock in your house, you're gonna keep trying the keys till you find the right one right to open that door. We don't. But we continue to wait in our careers oftentimes for others to give us that external validation to boost our confidence to make that decision.
So for me, there, it's two parts, but there's, they are very much influencing each other.
Oh, I love that. There's a lot of good stuff in there. Let's hear from Leslie. Then we can pull on some threads of what's coming up.
Well, so I promise, uh, we didn't plan this in advance, but to build on what Heather said is why I really thought about competence and time to leave.
You know, I think a lot of this is tied into our performance and talent management. Um, programs and companies where they constantly are focusing on the things that you're not doing well enough and that you need to improve on as opposed to focusing. A lot of times what I've seen in my experience is instead of focusing on those things that you are doing well and that you should keep doing better.
So what happens is, is it takes us down this path of internalizing the, the. I'm just not making it, you know, or, or if I can't make it here where I already am and have maybe had some successes, how am I going to leave that safety net or that that safe place to go to someplace where these people don't know me, this company has no idea who I am, and know that I can be successful when I keep being told.
That I need to do better, improve, don't do as much of that. And really, we focus a lot on the negative, which, which I think for a lot of people can hold them back from taking that leap even though they know that they're ready for it. Um, it's that, it's that self-fulfilling prophecy is how I would describe.
Yeah, that's a really interesting P point around we get so much corrective feedback that even when we use that terminology of improvement, it still feels like we're improving the correction as opposed to almost like a very different visual of, of a strength base or future focus, or like people listening, you can't see my body language, but I'm opening up my body.
Right. That openness that. Type of improvement, like that word improvement's used in both ways, but it's almost holding us back when we use it in that corrective way.
Uh, yeah, that's exactly how I think of it was. Exactly. Yeah.
What's coming up for you, Heather? I kind of saw your wheels turning at scene as you were listening to Leslie.
I think she really hit on some great things in there. Absolutely. When you let that external feedback, especially in those reviews, cuz you're spot on, they are often focused on what you need to do to improve versus what you're doing. That's amazing. And how we can continue to grow that and feed that. Um, I, I love that.
I do think it really gets into people's heads and it becomes that voice you just can't shut off.
And I know for me personally, I struggle with shutting it off, you know? And to, to talk just a, a bit about my change that I made. I was with my prior company for almost 15 years and had done so much growing and evolving and taking on new roles and growing and building by realize.
That I just hit a ceiling where I wasn't going to achieve or move forward until others did, or because people had certain perceptions of me no matter what I did. , I might not have been able to be successful. And so what I focused on was not leaving to leave because I still loved and still to this day, loved the company, loved the people, think it's a great organization.
So I want to make sure that when I was leaving, I was leaving for the next great people company, organization that espoused my. And that I knew that I could take all the great things I learned and bring them forward with me. And I can say that it was the hardest decision I'd made in my life. One of the, to, to leave that safety net of that, that group of people that I had worked with for 15 years.
I cried. , there were tears. There was a lot of feedback from people saying, I couldn't leave. I was too important. What do I need to stay? And I realized that it was a great way to feel, but made me realize that I can go and take my knowledge and share it with a whole new group of people who needed what I could provide.
But you have to know that you're ready for that. And I think what we also need and what Peloton Moms in Leadership does for us as a group, to be quite honest, is we need sounding boards. And those sounding boards need to be a diverse mix of people. It can't be all of your mom friends or all of your coworker friends or just.
Parents or your husband, boyfriend, girlfriend, partner, whatever. It has to be a really diverse group of people that, that have different views of you, but also, that you trust to be guiding you. And that is not always the people that you spend the most amount of time with every day when it comes to your career.
Yes. I love that. And I would just add to that they need to be honest, they need to be that group that you know, no matter what, they're going to be honest with you and say, you know, yes, stay, no go. You know, not hold back and be honest.
Yeah. And to underscore that, I remember a research study I read years ago now, but it was so fascinating.
It was right on this topic. And what they did is they explored how well it worked for people to reach out to their networks and especially their inactive networks. So they found that those two really fascinating findings that link this together, add with confidence. One finding was that just Leslie, to your point, the further away they are from you, the more likely they can help you because the people who know you, who are in your circle, they already know you. They probably already know what you're looking for. So the further someone is removed, the more likely they have connections or they have advice or knowledge or wisdom that can support you.
The other piece that was so fascinating, I thought, again, with with the confidence, was that it was done with a group of senior executives, high level executives, like C-Suite, and everyone involved expressed to the researchers that they were very nervous reaching out to people who had, they hadn't talked to in a long time, who were kind of further removed.
So the reason I share that is that for everyone listening, wherever you are in your career, wherever you are in that career journey, or you know, quote the latter, it is if you feel nervous about that idea, it is very natural. It's a natural experience to, to feel self-consciousness about reaching out.
So I'm curious now what's coming up for you? Let's, uh, hear from Heather.
You know, one thing that as, as you were speaking, Leslie, is something that popped to my mind was, I see to see more and more data these days that's talking about encouraging folks to be okay with switching roles because the data is starting to show.
That you actually increase your earnings by doing that and by staying, we have this great time right now. There's different views in the workforce. There's folks who've been loyal to companies and they, they feel like staying there forever or as long as you can, that is the right path. The company will take care of you.
And then we have others who are coming into the workforce who have been here a while. Who absolutely will hop to get the extra knowledge that they wanna gain or the experience they wanna gain. And the studies are showing that those who are get comfortable, and I'm gonna use that carefully, get comfortable with that change at the right time.
You know, not every six months, but at the right time really grows their career and their their income. than continuing to stay. And so as we pull that back into talking to the confidence, I think that's another thing folks should remember is, you know, don't be afraid of it. This could be an amazing thing, both for your experience, your career, but also your income.
Absolutely. And also, but also to, to, I fully support that Heather, um, and I and, and also for your own just personal growth, right? You get very to, to use the word comfortable. You get very comfortable when you're in the same company with the same people, even if people are changing. , uh, the institutional knowledge that you have from being that long-term fixture gets very comfortable and so it becomes harder to make that change and you do grow less confident because you're comfortable there.
However, there is also that delicate balance of not, uh, hopping jobs necessarily If you really want sustained growth in your career. and, and a great reputation of not hopping every two years for $10,000, right? You wanna make sure that you're growing your skills at an employer for the right amount of time, and maybe that is two years, maybe it's five years, maybe it's 18 months in certain roles, et cetera.
But I think that there is a balance between. Being able to provide your knowledge and grow your knowledge, which does not happen overnight, and grow your own skills to then take that next move. And so I think it's, it's about knowing when. , when is that the right move for you? And that's where you go back to that extended network to really get that feedback.
And, you know, to be quite honest, who doesn't like reached out and being asked for advice? I can't think of a time when someone has reached out to me that I either haven't talked to in five hours or five years. and says, Hey, I want to reach out to you because I have a question that I think you can help me answer.
Who's not gonna take that call? That is, you know, if for, if for no other reason. It's, it's its own confidence boost, right? And almost stroke of your ego that someone believes that you can provide knowledge to them. And so I think that's something else to, to recognize is. is that don't be scared to reach out because you might be doing something positive for someone else when you do, when you do try and make that connection.
All right. Well, that concludes part one of this conversation. Make sure to stay tuned for the next episode of the podcast where we will continue and finish off with part two of our conversation around confidence and knowing when is it time to go.
Thank you so much for listening to this episode. Now, before you go, make sure you click to follow the show this way you don't have to go looking for the latest episode. I'll come to you. Just click the plus button or the follow, and you'll get the latest episode fresh off the press. Thanks again. And remember that you are amazing. Now, get out there and RISE.